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Trump Indictment’s National Ramifications: WERC (Birmingham, AL) Fox News Interview

After another successful radio tour across our Republic, President John Pudner concluded in familiar territory - Birmingham, Alabama - wherein he gave his final thoughts and conclusions pertaining to the federal indictment of former President Trump. From comments made by Attorney General Merrick Garland on Special Prosecutor Jack Smith to polling trends for both former President Trump and President Biden, Pudner details the political and potentially constitutional ramifications of the indictment, how it could shape the 2024 Presidental race, and the dangers that lie ahead for both prosecutors and the jury in Miami, Florida as they weigh the cost/benefit analysis of this ordeal.

To learn more about TBOR Action's efforts on topics including election integrity, please click here.

The following transcript from this interview is presented in its entirety with minor edits:


Trump, indicted, overturning, jurors, Biden, Merrick Garland, Jack Smith.


J.T and TBOR Action President John Pudner.

J.T. 00:00

Donald Trump has been indicted in a number of charges stemming from this, and he was speaking to folks afterward when he left the courtroom proceedings, and he talked about Hillary Clinton, and Joe Biden, and what's going on in the past, but yet, he gets indicted.

Former President Donald Trump 00:16

Hillary Clinton broke the law. And she didn't get indicted. Joe Biden broke the law. And in many other ways we're finding out and so far has not gotten indicted. I did everything right and they indicted me!

J.T. 00:29

Well, he came out swinging and really taking shots at Merrick Garland and also Jack Smith - he's the special counsel. Well, here is Merrick Garland defending the appointment of Jack Smith, who's pressing forward with all this.

Attorney General Merrick Garland 00:34

When I appointed Mr. Smith, I did so because it underscores the Justice Department's commitment to both independence and accountability.

J.T. 00:56

Uhuh. And joining us now to talk a bit more about this John Pudner, President of Take Back Action Fund. He was a Bush 2000 aide. John, welcome back in, thanks for being here.

John Pudner 01:06

Thank you!

J.T. 01:08

37 Federal counts here, if found guilty on any of these, he could go to jail. Your thoughts on, first of all, how politically charged all of this is, and his comparison with Hillary, and sleepy Joe, and what they're doing, with no, I guess, accountability, or circumstances that will bring them front and center and the court proceedings, but yet, here we go, take down Trump at all costs.

John Pudner 01:35

Well, in starting with Merrick Garland...scum....I was just blown away that anyone could say, with a straight face, that appointing Jack Smith was to have any kind of fair and impartial look at this. Just to get a quick background on him, he was so over-aggressive in getting a two-year since against a Virginia governor, who was a Boy Scout, I mean, I lived in Virginia for years before living in Alabama for years, and he got two years on him. He went so over the top in that case that he did something that almost nobody in the country can do - he got a 9-0 decision out of US Supreme Court overturning himself. Even the liberal justices thought he was so over the top, and as a matter of fact, one of the liberal justices, Breyer, had a direct quote in helping to overturn that case, "To give that kind of power to a criminal prosecutor, who is virtually uncontrollable, is dangerous to the separation of powers." This is Stephen Breyer, this isn't Alito or Thomas or someone, so to say, I looked around and found, basically, the fairest guy I could, is what's being implied. Just the opposite in this case.

J.T. 02:42

It's a witch hunt, It's a joke, and to me, it's just nonstop since Trump announced he's running, and then wins, obviously. The fact that he was overturning the policies and how DC operates on a daily basis on both sides, and including the deep state that's clear of elections, He said, 'That's it, we're not going to do this anymore in Washington. We're changing things." Well, that turned the heads of a lot of people and made them quite angry, and now, here we go, just one thing after another, Russia collusion, the impeachment process is there, and now what's going on here... I gotta think it's just one thing after another, and Biden feels that this is his main major competition, and the status quo of DC doesn't like the possibility of these massive changes that Trump wants to bring again, so they're not going to stop at anything.

John Pudner 03:31

It's really interesting when I talked about a liberal Supreme Court judge's comment on this, but Nate Silver's website, which is obviously left, but does follow the numbers, they've got a piece now talking about if this hurts Biden. Of course, early on, I think all the conversation on the left would be on if this does kill Trump in general, probably helps to get the nomination, but it would be the general, I think that was the calculus. They have a nice piece up now talking about if it hurts Biden, and has this quote, "Even if Biden is able to skirt political harm as a result from Trump's federal indictment, trust in the judicial system could ebb even further." I mean, again, that's a left-of-center website following numbers, and part of the point they make is, even during Obama's second term, 59% of Republicans thought the FBI was doing an excellent job. Well, that's 29% now. How can you have this biggest segment of the country lose faith in what should be the place you go for justice in the country?

J.T. 04:36

Your thoughts on whether or not Trump running, if you're a Democratic supporter or you're a Democratic strategist, does it behoove the Democratic Party to have Trump in the race versus somebody else?

John Pudner 04:49

You know, I thought back in November, coming off DeSantis' 20-point win in Florida and all, I thought that he was a little stronger, that's just me not taking aside, but commenting. I just thought kind of the anti-Trump sort of hatred that's been built up might get you more than 50%, but now envision, if you have 12 jurors, and again, you only need one return a not guilty decision, two months before the election, let's say, hypothetically, down in Florida, I mean, look at the surge Trump got after the impeachment was defeated in the Senate. He surged, and sort of COVID happening, that looked like he was re-elected off of that, and so you can get the same kind of thing, so it completely changes the calculus on how it plays out next year.

J.T. 05:38

And that part of the country, and that part of the state, I mean, there's a lot of conservative folks there in the Hispanic community and the Cuban community down there is conservative, and as you said, all it takes is one juror, your thoughts on whether or not they would continue to retry it if there is, in fact, a mistrial?

John Pudner 05:58

That's a good question. Would you really be willing to drag the country through that, with the concerns already on dragging the country through this for more than a year? So, I think that would be tough. I'll just say, to be fair, if they get 12 jurors unanimously to say Trump was guilty of something, I might have say, "Okay, well, gosh, there had to be a few Trump supporters in there." I don't foresee that happening, but I don't know that people really grasp that you don't need even the majority of a grand jury to move forward, that's a much lower threshold. If you're going for a conviction there...well, we'll have to see how that plays out.

J.T. 06:37

All right. Very good, John. Thank you for your insight.


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